Goal one...check!

[corn02]

I think you are spot on bcb1. IMO MOR has no place on this panel, he is too slow as was shown up against Tyrone last year and his style is at odds with that of the current team. He is more lokely to get sent off than score a point.
HF.

How was he shown up?

People seem to always mention when Justy McMahon out-paced him up the line, but when I mention that moments earlier he had been down receiving treatment on his ankle, the poster that makes the point never seems to reply, so maybe you will?

By the way, Marty played that match with a career-threatening injury. Maybe management should not have played him if he wasn't 100% but he wanted to do what was best for the county.

Of course, your post also forgets to mention that he was by no way the worst Armagh player on the field, assisting in 1-3 of our scores.

[corn02]

Also, if you don't think he should be on the panel that's fair enough. I just despise people using the Tyrone McMahon example as definite evidence that he is 'too slow' when there were circumstances involved.

[Diarmi]

He may not have been the worst player on the field but thats hardly a great recomendation.
If he was not fit to continue and it affected his pace so badly then he should have made the call himself to come off.
What excuses will you make this year when he doesnt perform again. You need to be a pretty special footballer to come into a panel at this stage and get your place, MOR is not special.
Furthermore who would you sacrafice and what would that do for morale?
He is a greater liability than a threat.

[corn02]

He may not have been the worst player on the field but thats hardly a great recomendation.

So by citing Tyrone as an example of why he is not good enough, the same maxims apply across the board and subs-standard showings from AK, Duffy et al should result in them not being on the panel either in your eyes? The Irish News rated him as Armagh's best player on the day.

If he was not fit to continue and it affected his pace so badly then he should have made the call himself to come off.

I didn't seem him losing out in the pace stakes to much after that. Indeed, I eblieve the incident was just before the break if I remember correctly. I'm sure he would have recieved treatment in those 15 minutes. His best play came in the second half. Ultimately, it's the manager's call to replace players.

What excuses will you make this year when he doesnt perform again.

So you think that the ankle treatment he received was an excuse and not a valid reason for wh y he couldn't keep up with McMahon just after? How would I know if he will perform well or not this year? Injuries probably mean he won't be about anyway I would guess.

You need to be a pretty special footballer to come into a panel at this stage and get your place, MOR is not special.
.

He was never OFF the panel I doubt. He was carrying injuries, he was unable to compete in the League because of these. Paddy O'Rourke, in his wisdom, probably told him to recover rather than play league games when you're nearly crippled.

Furthermore who would you sacrafice and what would that do for morale?

There are quite a number of players on the panel I would rather have O'Rourke in for.

He is a greater liability than a threat

Talks back too much. Can be narky on the pitch. More of a liability than a threat? Catch a grip.

[Diarmi]

Jez, a bit of a MOR fan I think corn!
He totaly upsets the rythym of a game. He seems more intent in getting under the skin of the opposition than playing football. Think back to Ballybofey, he even had a go at McIvor.
That aul shite is a thing of the past, get out and play football, bate them on the field and never mind the mind games that Tyrone are masters of.
This current team are all good honest footballers who play football and who will win games playing football.
I'm all for good hard physical stuff but not that shite.
I'm not going to reply to all your points because they are petty, suffice to say he was not good enough last year and hes def not good enough this year.

[corn02]

Jez, a bit of a MOR fan I think corn!
He totaly upsets the rythym of a game. He seems more intent in getting under the skin of the opposition than playing football. Think back to Ballybofey, he even had a go at McIvor.
That aul shite is a thing of the past, get out and play football, bate them on the field and never mind the mind games that Tyrone are masters of.
This current team are all good honest footballers who play football and who will win games playing football.
I'm all for good hard physical stuff but not that shite.
I'm not going to reply to all your points because they are petty, suffice to say he was not good enough last year and hes def not good enough this year.

Bar Donaghy, Clarke and Shannon was any player good enough last year in the Championship? Reply to my posts, there valid points.

I am a fan yes. Interesting that you took that from Ballybofey and not the fact that he had been very good that day and taking him off was a big blunder.

If mind games are a thing of the past, but then you state Tyrone are the masters, is that not weakening your point?

It's interesting to note that you know he isn't good enough this year. Saturday's lotto numbers please?

[bcb1]

You have to admit though corn that there is no way the MOR should really be considered for a start in this years championship against Derry. He has played very little football and is only really back at it now. Also given the change in style(thankfully) Martin's role is not as necessary. I think he is agood at what he does but is not going to be close to the pace of teh game.

[Patrick-Armagh]

I'm happy with how Armagh have been performing so far this season. The team came to a very definite crossroads a few years ago, when the team of 2002 began going their separate ways and the team needed an introduction of new players. It was obvious that we were going to struggle for a couple of seasons, while the new players began to get up to speed with the standard and expectation of county football. Even though we won an Ulster Championship under Peter McDonnell, I think we over achieved that year and maybe it paper over the cracks that were in our team and which were fully exposed last season. Even in Joe Kernan's last year in the job, I felt that we had gone backwards as a team and that some big calls had to be made, which mightn't have helped with results in the short term, but which would definitely see success in the long term.

The emergence of players like Donaghy, Shannon, Lavery, Toner, Swift, Forker and Vernon has given the team an injection of youth which it had sorely needed. Add the likes of Dyas and young Clarke to the mix and we have a group of players who can be the heart of the team for the next few years. Others like Moriarty and Duffy, who had been on the team for a couple of seasons have also had the chance to become regular players and adapt to the demands of intercounty football. I was dubious when Paddy O'Rourke took over the team, as I always felt that he was tactically naive when in charge of Down. However, the one thing that I did like about him was that he played attacking football. For too long, Armagh had been going into games with too much of a defensive mindset. We've have a very strong defensive unit for a number of years and this is still the case, so it angered me when I would see Armagh playing with two defensive half forwards like O'Rourke and Duffy. Most team these days play this type of sweeping half forward, which I have no problem with, but having two seemed excessive and affected our ability to score. Indeed, we became so reliant on Clarke and McDonnell to get scores for us, that we became predictable and teams found us out very quickly.

Under O'Rourke we've played more of an expansive game and have let our good players go out and express themselves. We have seen more scoring from our half forwards, which has been a real cause for concern for the past couple of seasons. This has taken the burden off McDonnell and his performances have reflected this as teams no longer solely mark him, which gives him more time and space to score.

There's still lots of work to be done, and I'm not expecting too much from us this season in the Championship. I'd be happy if we made it to an All Ireland Quarterfinal. But the signs are promising. We look supremely fit, but more importantly mobile, which is the key. Much praise has to go Paddy O'Rourke for bringing Mick McGurn into the set up. The Derry game will show us where we are as team and even if we don't win, there is reason to be optimistic about the future with the current crop of young, talented players we have.

[sliothar]

I look fwd to the final but still wouldn't read too much into any result except a big loss.

This is still the lge and POR may decide to continue to use it to experiment or possibly go for it - line out will tell the tale.

We are at the stage where after an All Ireland in 2002 we have some supporters who feel we should be at the top table all the time. That isnt realistic and we are at best in the top 10 in Ireland at present.

POR has inherited a team in need of changes because of poor stewardship not only in PMcD reign but also from JK's, he probably is about 2/3 yrs behind other Counties re. bringing new players into the panel and weaning them into the actual playing squad - so I think that he will continue to experiment with an eye on the Derry game and take any bonus that comes his way.

[corn02]

You have to admit though corn that there is no way the MOR should really be considered for a start in this years championship against Derry. He has played very little football and is only really back at it now. Also given the change in style(thankfully) Martin's role is not as necessary. I think he is agood at what he does but is not going to be close to the pace of teh game.

I'd agree with that, not so much his role is not as neccesary. In fact with marauding defenders I think his role would be more important.

But I said all along that it all depended on fitness, which he obviously won't get.