Goal one...check!

[Carver]

Irregardless it still doesn't change the fact that we weren't good enough and that our tactics had been cottened on to by '03 at the latest and certainly by '05.
A change in tactics would have allowed for an evolution of the playing staff around the change, that wasn't happening and we had in place the best exponents of 'our tactic' that were available and they were ageing/marked men.
Already we can see roles for players within the new stlye of playing that couldn't have been dreamed of witihin the old system and also the possibilities for 'new blood' to have a chance to make their mark - there is a buzz around the team and squad it is revitalised.
If we had been going into a match against Derry in O3-09 era without Clarkie we would be a fwd down and Stevie would be in big trouble as he would have no help.
However, we don't even seem to be overly put out by that fact as there are scores coming from others, Stevie has found some room in there because the scoring is shared and when Clarkie returns it will add to the threat in front of goal.
We now have change, it is good and IMO it should have happened earlier, any change would have been better than the static we employed. Surely even the last 2 months football is evidence of what could have happened 2/3 years ago if someone had had the b...s to try it.
It really was as simple, as we had become masters of the defensive tactic, why not then become masters of attacking football and play it with a smile on our face.
Hope we run over the top of Derry tomorrow and believe enough in ourselves and the talent we have to go otu and finish the job in style.

It seems that the tactics of 03-09 are so good that we are going to hold on to them a bit longer. Yesterday was as defensive as anything under either Kernan or McDonnell. 13 men behind the ball for most of the game. We played with a sweeper for the entire game - exactly what both Kernan and McDonnell did. In the entire second half Armagh scored 3 times - 2 of these scores came from high diagonal balls in.

I'm pleased that O'Rourke reverted to the sweeper system. Down (in Newry) were the only decent team we played where we lined out 6 on 6. We got thrashed. Fair play to Paddy O'Rourke for learning from his mistakes.

Tactics were never the problem. A team grew old. The new team was too young and inexperienced. Players take time to settle. There is certainly an argument that both Kernan and McDonnell made mistakes in selection or on the line. But tactically they got it right.

[sliothar]

Have to disagree from the point of view that our spread of scorers has widened.
Yes we did adopt some defensive tactics, then you have to adapt to who you play against, snuff out the Bradleys and Derry don't hack it - simple.
We did to Derry what had been done to us for years from 03 on ie snuff out Clarke & McDonnell and bye bye Armagh.
I really think your take on it is simplistic.
At least this management is prepared to experiment and adapt with each game. No such difference under previous regimes as mentioned.
We won what was always going to be a war of attrition in Celtic Pk. fair play I don't see it as a points scoring exercise for one tactic or another and I do think the longer the C'ship goes the more fluid our tactics will become relative to the opposition we play. This is what O'Rourke has brought to our game and it is a breath of fresh air long may it continue.
It is the way fwd Tyrone mastered it, we didn't and we got caught out, simple.
I don't really mind what tactic we adopt as long as we continue to be come a force again on the AI stage, but I do believe it will be the TACTICS, plural, that we can adapt to, that will take us the extra mile and hopefully bring us that elusive 2nd AI.
Paddy O'R has demonstrated a willingness to experiment and take chances - fair play - a breath of fresh air from the stagnation that we have suffered. It may take 2/3 years to get it right but I believe we are on the right path. So, score points if you want, but this man is bringing about effective change, even if you or others don't want to see it??!!

[corn02]

. So, score points if you want, but this man is bringing about effective change, even if you or others don't want to see it??!!

Missing the point by so much it's not even funny.

[sliothar]

I may have missed one but I am sorry my friend it is you have missed many.
The new regime is working, it has brought change and it is proving effective and adaptible, look fwd to more of the same bring on Monaghan.

[corn02]

I may have missed one but I am sorry my friend it is you have missed many.
The new regime is working, it has brought change and it is proving effective and adaptible, look fwd to more of the same bring on Monaghan.

Oh I will have missed many points alright.

But you continue to think we are criticsing O'Rourke in this thread, which is miles off the turth.

[sliothar]

Don't know who is the 'we', do you post as 2 or 3 people Corn02? Now there is a way to always be on the right side of the argument - never thought of that!

I have to admit disappointment after Monaghagn debacle and agree we did divert to Old Plan A and defend too deep, most worryingly we were also gutless in our response, I think our biggest problem is that we just haven't got the players at the moment and even more worryingly that we are going to end up 'injuring' the likes of Jamie Clarke by overplaying/burdening him with the job of covering for others - Ronan Carke is suffering now from overplay in a hit/killer position.... we need new tactics and more consideration for the long term needs of the players resulting from the systems we play.

[corn02]

Don't know who is the 'we', do you post as 2 or 3 people Corn02? Now there is a way to always be on the right side of the argument - never thought of that!

y.

I meant the people who were discussing this topic well and debating the issues, which some people took at criticsms of the new management.